• Registered: 6 August 2010
  • Posts: 3

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Hi Mac Thankyou
I am approaching this from a number of angles.
My Lease being one of them and perhaps the main one,as this sets out my rights and relationship with the lessor .
To not uniformally apply all these covenants to all residents causes my lease to be a misnomer as my relationship with the leaseholder and my own obligations to other flat occupiers become contradictory in terms.
My Lease also covenants that leaseholders shall not do anything which may be  or become a nusance or annoyance to the lessor or or the occupier of any other flat .Also That the lessor (the freeholder) can make extra reasonable regulations to govern all other flats on the estate but these must also be consisitent with our deed.so I am taking this up on these grounds also. I have pointed out the  Defra research done regarding the health and wellbeing of residents of downstairs flats when carpet is removed from an upstairs flat and replaced by a laminate floor.And am compiling evidence from correspondence to questions asked to various arms of the Housing association eg tenants arm and also Homeowner unit.
I have also been informed by The Association that they are in the process of updating its own tenancy agreements, and are at present  ascertaining whether they should ban laminate in flats,due to complaints regarding the same.They already have a written consent process and include laminate floor as an item of alteration to the property ,whereby written consent must be applied for and I am campaigning that affected residents whether leaseholder or rented, should be approached and included in the decision making when consent is applied for.
The problem in my case was that the New tenants were not made aware of this procedure on signing up for the property,and did not apply for consent until I pointed this out to them myself,by which time the laminate had been purchased.  The Housing officer who gave consent was a temp for the area and gave  verbal consent as they were not trained enough to know the procedures also.
Therefore  the new tenant was given verbal consent when signing up to the Tenancy.
The official housing officer for our estate has emailed me that had she have been the one to sign them up she would have discouraged laminate floor as she says she always does this for upstairs flat because of the noise nuisance  and the disturbance it can cause to downstairs residents.I am however now in the unfortunate position of  being both in dispute with the new tenants and also the Housing Association as they have marginalised leaseholders living in mixed tenure(which is about a third of us on the estate.)and on the grounds that it seems that Leaseholders must do as they say but tenants can do as they like.  I have informed them that as They have given the approval , not only will the tenants be liable for any Noise nuisance( I have informed the tenants of this)but that they too( the association) will  also be liable to me should I suffer from any disturbance to my previously quiet and peaceful enjoyment of my home as they have given outright approval for this installation,whether by mistake or otherwise.However due to these disputes I would have to disclose this to any potential purchaser should I wish to sell,which could ultimately devalue my asset.My aim is that I really want to get this matter resolved  and carry on living a peaceful life as previously.But only today my new tenants visitors have begun to make things deteriorate further by running up and down the staircase,I suspect in order to deliberately annoy us due to our complaint.
I have also contacted LEASE and my MP.
I will keep you posted in my endeavours.

Quote Post 61

  • Registered: 1 April 2010
  • Posts: 454

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Hi NL!  I can't help but feel that, given all that you've said, if you were to get to the stage (and hopefully that won't happen), then you'd have a very good case agaisnt those who are making the noise, and those who are letting them get away with making a nuisance.   It is true, sadly that if you go ahead and make an official compiaint ot the Environmental Health Dept, then you will probably have to declare it when and if you sell. However, as there are other tenanted flats in the block, then your flat is very likely to sell to someone for a buy-to-let. In that case, they won't care about any noisy neighbours. It would be a great shame, though, when you've lived there happily for so long. (If you look at earlier posts, you'll see that my Mum is being pushed into doing the same thing, after SIXTY years in her house!)

Quote Post 62

  • Registered: 6 August 2010
  • Posts: 3

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Hi Yes
I know that as I have initiated a formal dispute with my Lessor that I will now have to disclose should I wish to sell.
However I will take this as far as is needed to ensure that laminate floor will no longer be a problem in the flat above me.
I have been contacted by Lease who state that I can take legal action against the Lessor ,although they have suggested going through the lessor’s ( who is a very large RSL) formal complaint procedure,or Lease mediation service firstly.
I have of course already done this and I am expecting a reply shortly (they have to reply within 10days and it is day 10 tomorrow.Mediation is not an option as I am not willing to give up any of the rights in my Lease.
There has been somewhat of a surprising development as tonight we have seen and heard carpet being fitted throughout the property.So perhaps something has been going on in the background or maybe the new Tenants have just decided to be considerate after all ( we have not spoken a word since I went to speak to  them after seeing packs of laminate being taken into the property) . I will try to break the ice when the dust has settled.
However I need to take this to the limit as far as the Lessor is concerned.
My intention,on a personal level is to ensure that the freeholder/lessor will never allow laminate flooring to be installed by any renting tenant in the property above myself. I require this in writing to keep with my lease.I will not accept any other resolution.
The wider motive is to ensure,on behalf of all leaseholders on our estate,or even possibly in any of the thousands of properties that the freeholder owns or manages, that no hard surface flooring  is allowed in any of their tenants flats, (  in line with the covenants of our leases).The irony of all this ,is that I have been told that their tenant’s tenancy agreements are going to be updated and the problems of laminate flooring is being looked at as part of that. I have requested that I am allowed to make my case to the body who are developing the new tenancy agreements.A recent newsletter from them also showed a picture of laminate flooring and telling tenants that they must apply for written consent to install.The Housing officer did not know anything about this newsletter or article that was sent out,and they did not know about the existence of the Defra guidance also..,but of course they did not know about the covenant in our leases regarding substantially covering with carpet throughout our flats!
I will keep you all posted as things proceed.
Speak to you all soon

Quote Post 63

  • Registered: 1 April 2010
  • Posts: 454

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

As I said previously, my Mum's local council didn't consider that she had a case, so she's decided to try and sell and move out. Now, of course, other neighbours are starting to moan about the noisy, and otherwise inconsiderate, neighbours.  Not only do they sound extremely noisy to their immediate neighbours on either side, they've started 'taking liberties' in other ways.  After leaving their rubbish outside (uncollected because they didn't leave it where they should!), they must have ended up with maggots in the bin, so the wife washed the bin out, wheeled it round to the access alley on the far side of her neighbour, and poured the water and remaining rubbish down beside the lady's house!  On the other side of the alley, the owners of the house there have had their front garden raised and paved, so they can park their car off-road.  THE neighbours just drove in and parked their car there!  Methinks there will be an explosion sometime soon.

Quote Post 64

  • Registered: 1 April 2010
  • Posts: 454

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Just bringing this back briefly to show what ignorance (in more than one meaning of the word) there is about laminate flooring.  I had cause to ring my Mum's estate agent during the week, to ask some questions, and talked to one of the staff (very arrogant man!) since the one who's been dealing with Mum's house wasn't there. During the call, I mentioned the noise issue (of which they're aware), and he said that in all his 23 years in the housing business, he's never heard of a noise problem being purely due to the presence of laminate flooring - "My neighbour has wooden flooring, and there's no problem. There must be something else involved".  This is someone who has been dealing with houses for years - no wonder estate agents have a dreadful reputation!  Thanks to this forum, and Mac in particular, I was able to tell something of the truth of the matter, and will certainly be telling his boss when he values my mother-in-law's house this week.  Such rudeness, as he was implying that either my Mum had a hidden agenda, or that she was making a lot of fuss about very little.

Quote Post 65

66 Reply by Sylwester

  • Sylwester
  • Unregistered poster

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Hi. I'm just about to buy the flat in a new building so I asked that lady showing us apartment about fitting a laminate flooring (easy clean, good for dancing, etc.), now i understand why it's so many problems with it. We are polish smile in fact, and I think the problem with the others is that in Poland when you live in block of flats, floor is different, different architecture, so there is not much noise with laminates, Of course I don't accept an ignorance if you try to speak to you neighbours  and they just don't want to listen... Funny thing is, if we deicide to move in we gonna have polish as well above our heads... hope they won't do laminate flooring in the future as a contract says. By the way there are some solutions to make floor quiet, but it's for people who realise that they can make noise for the others, don't want to do it and really want to be fair, people with brain... Hope you will sort out your problems. Good luck

Quote Post 66

  • Registered: 16 November 2010
  • Posts: 3,302

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Hello Good People,
This is Pandora...earplugs and industrial ear phones neva helped me...they dig in yr skin an drop off in the nite...i am on medication to keep calm...my rheumatoid arthritus i am convinced is a result of sleeping  in the bathrm,  on the sofa....or just not being allowed to sleep...this is my 8th day and 7th night....all in a row....after 6 days of peace.  (uneasy peace because i neva knew wen it would start again)
I draw comfort for finding this place.... i sometimes wonder if i will just crack completely one day....but i'm lucky that i'v always got someone to talk to.
My tormentor ripped up his hall carpet.... he uses his flat as a workshop....he makes things....model cars, that sound like real cars....and he's like frankenstein wi motorbikes outside my kitchen window....
My sister suggested wen he has his BASE on, which he deny's wen i challenge him....i persist in ringing his bell....
Take Heart Good Friends....Half a day at a time....play some Neil Diamond or ABBA.....if u can't face food....try milkshake or soup or lucazade..... Sending u all a huge hug   xx

Quote Post 67

68 Reply by Someguyfromtheinternet

  • Someguyfromtheinternet
  • Unregistered poster

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Anyway possible you can move Pandora? if i ever get in that sort of state i wouldn't stay.  if its affecting your health its not worth staying.

Quote Post 68

  • Registered: 1 April 2010
  • Posts: 454

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

As someguy says, can you not move, Pandora?  It must be awful for you. Just as an aside, though, personally, I reckon Abba would tip me over the edge, anyway!  wink

Quote Post 69

  • Registered: 1 December 2010
  • Posts: 6

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

My neighbours, all three residents were disturbing my sleep and normal day to day living for eight years. Last year, two of them moved out, but one was replaced by relatives of theirs I believe because of the strong resemblance. They have continued from where the last ones left off. To make things worst, our witness to the original noise, who lived one floor below us was found dead in his apartment last year. The council(RMO) have kept quiet about where he was buried and how he died.

Now that he is deceased, they've stategically moved in a family in his place who are seriously loud. This involves heavy guitar playing at all times of the night, screeching laminated or uncarpetted floor just like the people upstairs. The neighbour who lives next door to me, shouts out to his friends outside my door daytime, nightime and late at night. He has also held fights outside my door and deals and takes drugs on the stairwell where people need to walk up and down.

There is a new team working in the council office, but they always keep changing staff. This makes thing difficult because each time they change staff, our case about the noisy neighbours starts again. Now the new team is asking us to go through the whole filling out diaries routine again. Everything that has been happening has caused much health problems for us.

I decided to put what I'm going through on my blog which is dedicated to the mad living conditions we are having to endure. Much recorded evidence of noise is on there, but I have a lot more that I haven't uploaded as yet. My blog page is http://living-conditions.blogspot.com/ I hope to hear from you soon and best of luck with your neighbours.

Quote Post 70

  • Registered: 1 December 2010
  • Posts: 6

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Thanks for your reply, Mac. The council RMO, were the ones that said that we should record the noise. We let them listen to it in a Mediation in 2008 and in front of one of them that make the noise. That person admitted to the noise, but denied it was happening at night. So we got more proof, but by that time and during a period of when we were flooded, the ones dealing with the noise case left. The new staff and management group said they will not deal with the pass no matter how much we asked them to do so.

I spoke to environmental health on numerous occassion, but they show no interst in taking us seriously and are patranising at that. No matter how you explain the effects of noise and disturbances, they keep saying it's normal domestic noise and so on.

Yes, it's a block of flats and what's even more surprising is that no one else complains and the RMO office don't receive any about noise. It's as if we are the only ones experiencing this in the block and yet I know that others can hear it. I think it's a case of other residents making complaints but it has been shrugged of by RMO staff as nothing and not taken seriously so they don't bother anymore.

We've done the direct approach and it was a bad Idea. They are not very understanding neighbours at all.

We've done diary sheets in the pass many times and at present we're doing one. It will be handed in by tomorrow. From experience, this will result in nothing getting done, but at lease now we have two thick folders of letter of all the efforts we've made to counter the problem and very little help from council.

Thanks again for your suggestions, Mac.

Quote Post 71

72 Reply by sadmidterrace

  • sadmidterrace
  • Unregistered poster

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

wow I feel so much better was beginning to think I was the only annoyed mid terrace owner .
well, I'm 21 studying for my final honours year at university, my degree required shift working/nightshifts  and mum works full time.

my neighbours to the right have two dogs kept in kennels all day and all night (rain/snow and fireworks) contacted SSPC nothing they can do as the dogs are healthy and do get out. I'm. dog owner and understand they bark, but it's totally ridiculous! every 10-15 minutes! so I went to speak to this neighbour I was very upset and stressed but remained polite and he said he was
away to feed them and slammed the door inmy face and swore  at me! disgusting!

my neighbours to the left have fill laminate all over their house and stud partion Walls their daughter plays dance music nearly every day so sp loud it feels the Walls iny house are going to collapse. you can here
them walk, talk, sex, tv, doors, cupboards. last night I was up til 3am as they were out and came home being  loud! so between late noisy neighbours and dogs all during the day.. there's no hope for u's stuck in the middle ...  the more I think about it how can neighbours be so inconsiderate??? so I confronted the left neighbours on Facebook and now looks like there's more parties, but it is the Xmas season ...

Quote Post 72

  • Registered: 16 November 2010
  • Posts: 3,302

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Sam,

Sending you a hug.

I know the amount of work required at university in yr final year. Its holidays now...but you got to formulate a plan for times for study and sleep. My university IT suite is open till 2am and the library 10pm with staff. You may possibly find a cubby hole somewhere, or place an ad on student board or e-mail. Make it into a joke....you may have good fortune. As well as keeping sane...you must not weaken...yr degree is months away....all you've worked for....xx

Quote Post 73

74 Reply by headache

  • headache
  • Unregistered poster

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

me wrote:

Yes i have the same problem a single mum with 4 kids numerous "family staying for weeks n months on end..the house is privet rent ..i used to like living in my home which i own but not for the last 10 months..Next door is more like a hostel and a dogs home.. i have asked the landlord to speak to them as she is totally unaproachable but have not got anywhere..infact it is worse they now delibrately stamp on the floor and bang doors atleast 30 times an hour..i work 40 hrs they are scrounging off the dole, i hate coming home from work now n dred being on early shift..what can i do.. i cant afford to move....HELP

Sarah wrote:

I live in a terraced house and my neighbour has laminate floors. Unfortunately, I can hear her walking around and banging/slamming doors. Her kitchen also adjoins and I can hear her every time she opens cupboard doors and when she is using her kitchen work surfaces. Combined with the fact that she is a shift worker and comes in and goes out at odd hours banging around I am now finding it impossible to sleep and am getting tireder and tireder. I have briefly mentioned the fact I can hear her but it doesn’t seem to have made her any more considerate. I did get a sound expert in to review the problem and he said the noise I am experiencing is impact noise which is intensified by the laminate flooring. He could fit an internal wall which would not be easy and would cost £4,000 to £5,000 plus. It would also not entirely cut out the sound. I have tried ear plugs but these have not proved very effective. I feel trapped as I am unable to afford to move. I also no longer enjoy my home and feel I cannot even relax enough to read a book or watch TV. My work is also suffering and I look continuously haggard. I am worried as I really can’t see things improving.

hey i am on the dole with three children while the woman next door owns her own home whats the difference she has done nothing in compareson to own that house ex hubby i expect she got her own grankids but that dont stop her and her partner from constantly purposly making noise that vibrates through our house every night stomping slamming shouting hammering on the wall of my 7 and 9yrs old daughters at all ours of night and day wich causes and why does everyone get called scroungers if they havent found a job yet what do you want people to do all very easy to say when you got a job imagine having 3 children when youre on the dole and putting up with noisy nieghbours like mine when you are trying to get your life sorted you dont want to come on these forums to get more harrasment !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote Post 74

75 Reply by lana

  • lana
  • Unregistered poster

Re: Neighbour with laminate floors...

Frankie wrote:

I'm a first time buyer and only moved into my flat 6 months ago. We were told the sound proofing in the flat was fine and the previous owner said she rarely heard the neighbours. Now I know she was lying just to get her flat sold!!! Our neighbours above don't even have laminate, they have the original floor boards so we can hear them talk, shout, thump around like elephants and they have started playing extremely loud music at 12am!!! which goes on till 5am during the week, it's worse at the weekends. I think they must be students as they don't seem to work at all.
At first we went up to complain but they just laughed and turned the music up louder. Now I'm just at my wits end, I hate going home and dread the thought of lying wide awake listening to their music.
I don't want to call the police as it sounds they like do nothing anyway and make the situation worse as i still need to live there when the police go away.

I'm going to have to sell and and lose money next year as our mortgage was fixed for 5 years and by next year we'll only have here for 2 years. It's such a shame because it is a lovely flat in a great location but it's just been ruined by inconsiderate neighbours.

Quote Post 75